HIT CHANNEL EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW: June 2024. He had the great honour to talk with a legendary musician: Scott “Wino” Weinrich. He is best known as the guitarist and vocalist of doom metal pioneers The Obsessed. He has also been a member of Saint Vitus, Spirit Caravan, Place of Skulls, The Hidden Hand, Premonition 13, Shrinebuilder and has released several solo records. Earlier this year The Obsessed released their newest studio album, “Gilded Sorrow”. Read below the very interesting things he told us:
Please give us some basic information about the writing and recording process of “Gilded Sorrow” album?
Some of the songs I’ve had in my pocket for a while, some of the songs are a little bit older and especially the song “Gilded Sorrow”. I mean, I was writing the words of that song for a really long time, because to me it’s like a special poem and it had to be right. But when we got Jason (ed: Taylor -rhythm guitar) and Chris (ed: Angleberger -drums) in the band, Jason was very helpful in helping me to home record demos and stuff and he also made some really good suggestions to finalize some of the songs. So, it really was a group effort. It’s a pretty dark record. I’ve very proud of this record, I ‘m happy with this record.
I really like the sound of the song “Gilded Sorrow” from the album of the same title. Please tell us everything we should know about this great song.
We called Frank Marchard (ed: producer), we did “Sacred” (2017) with him too, I mean, he is a fantastic engineer. “Gilded Sorrow” is a sort of statement: “Ok, life is beautiful. You have a beautiful flower but maybe the paint is a little bit old and it’s flaking off like the beautiful golden statue, but the paint is really fake”. The story itself of “Gilded Sorrow” is about a mortal that’s in love with a fallen angel.
What’s the story behind the song “Stoned Back to the Bomb Age” from “Gilded Sorrow” album?
“Stoned Back to the Bomb Age” is like, as we say in America, a tongue-in-cheek meaning, it’s an inside joke. I heard an American government official some years ago made some comment about the war that was happening at the time in Afghanistan and his comment was: “If so-and-so country gets involved in this war, we age gonna bomb them back to the Stone Age”. That stuck in me because it was so brutal, it’s typical war pig bullshit, so in my head I came up with this idea: “Stoned Back to the Bomb Age”. When we recorded the song, I tried to find the sound of this guy actually saying it, but we did found the sound by, but it was from many years before. So, this guy had ripped it off from the other guy already. Insane! It’s basically a comment of the war-like attitude of some of these people in power, the so-called “elite”. It’s war pigs.
How different is the dynamics in the band now you are a 4-piece band compared to the 3-piece line up?
I think it gives me a lot more room to breathe. With two guitars you can a lot more: You play harmonies, if you think about Thin Lizzy and I can take a breath when I am singing. Being a 3-piece for so long, it was great, but it also was limiting me a little bit. I was always locked into the microphone. But with the 4-piece we can do a lot more, Jason is a great guitar player too, his ideas are great, he’s also a really good singer. So, it’s nothing but good as far as I am concerned, I’m very happy we made these decisions. I mean, so far, it’s more powerful, so I think the people like it.
Are you satisfied with the response you got so far from fans and press for the material of “Gilded Sorrow” album?
Yes, I am. I am very happy and I’m very grateful to the fans, too. It’s important for me to put out the best music that I possibly can for the people. I want the people to get the most out of the music for their souls and, really, that’s why I play music, to enrich other people’s lives, as well as my own. But it’s mainly to do my little part to help world be a better place.
What makes the music of the Obsessed still relevant in 2024?
I think that it has to do with the sound, the production and I think that we still have a lot songwriting in us. You know, a lot of bands these days, they have one great album, maybe two, but there is no songwriting depth. I mean, I live to write songs. In my world it’s “create or die”. So, I can’t even imagine writing or releasing a record that isn’t as good or better than the last one. I don’t know how it can even be done, so, we keep doing what we do. I know for a fact, as you get older and you gain more knowledge, especially in the studio, then it’s only can get better.
What went wrong when The Obsessed signed to Columbia Records for “The Church Within” (1994) ?
In those days things were a little bit different. It was a very-very uncomfortable situation because they didn’t know how to market us. We were a 3-piece power trio, we had no lead singer. Nirvana did their thing and we weren’t Motley Crue. They didn’t really know how to sell us. The music was heavy too, it wasn’t pop music. So, I think we got signed because the rank and file, the A&R people really liked the band. Our lawyer really liked the band, she was the one who shopped us to the labels, but the labels want a hit, they wanted the hit and when they asked us to re-demo for the second record to be more radio-friendly, we said “no” (laughs).
That’s why you are a legend. Does “Wino -The Documentary” (2023) capture the real you?
I think it’s very accurate. I mean, that was a couple of years in the making, there were some changes and some moves, ups and downs and I think she (ed: Sharlee Patches -director and also his wife) did a really good job on it. It’s pretty accurate, but we had to decide whether we would leave some stuff in, because it might be a little hard for the kids or whatever, the drugs and all that. We wanted to be real life and it is real life.
Is it flattering that people like Henry Rollins (Black Flag), Dave Grohl (Nirvana, Foo Fighers), Bobby Liebling (Pentagram) and others are participating in “Wino -The Documentary”?
Of course. I mean, those are my peers and the people that we struggled with in making our art. All those people that you mentioned are fantastic artists also, in the own right and I have a great relationship with David, Bobby, everybody, pretty much so. I get along with everybody and my philosophy is that music should do the talking.
How much has your approach to guitar changed over the years?
That’s a good question. As you get older, you learn more; hopefully, you learn more. Sometimes it takes people a long time to learn, but as you get older, like in your 60s, like I’m really in, you might start to get a little bit stiff. What I was told from way back was that you need to play less, say more. You don’t have to play as much but you still say as much with the music. Play less, say more. Do you know what I mean?
Yes. Last November I did an interview with Jorma Kaukonen (guitar) from Jefferson Airplane and he told me that as you are getting older you find yourself following more rules in songwriting because you know more about music.
Yeah, I love him! It can be very true. I like Hot Tuna, I like Jefferson Airplane and I like most or all of Jorma’s solo stuff. And Jack Casady (Jefferson Airplane, Hot Tuna –bass), he is amazing-amazing player. He is from my home state of Maryland too, where I grew up. Yeah, I think that’s very true.
Could you explain to us your “create or die” philosophy?
Well, it’s pretty self-explanatory. I don’t like authority, I don’t like being told what to do, I live my own life but I try to live my own life in a good way. I don’t wake up in the morning thinking (ed: he mimics a grumpy voice) : “Who can I rip-off today to make more money?” To me, art is life. Right now, I am painting a big painting for a commission and I don’t really consider myself that good of a painter, but people like the stuff I do. I have an impressionist thing, I guess. I think I’m kind of weird (laughs).
I talked with a friend of mine earlier today, Sofia, who is a huge fan of yours, she was unable to do the interview, she knows more about your stuff than me and I told her: “I am a bit hippie, I ‘m not too metal” and she said: “Wino is hippie at heart, too”
(Laughs) Hippie to the bone, man! It’s so true. I was just telling to my wife earlier today, actually, about this Mexican gangster friend of mine who looked at me one day and said: “Man, you are hippie to the bone” (laughs). I’m hippie to the bone! What about is the hippie? I like the guitar, I believe in love, beauty, it’s important to be loyal, I think honesty is important. So, if all those things make a hippie, then, yeah.
How did you come up with the idea to cover Joy Division’s “Isolation” on your “Forever Gone: Blood and Strings -The Ripple Acoustic Series Volume 1” (2020) ?
That’s a good question. There is something about Joy Division that I always love. Joy Division is one of the heaviest bands ever. The music and also the story. I mean, they were so prolific in two years, I think, all leading up to Ian Curtis’ (vocals) suicide. Man, it’s so dark, it’s so heavy, but the music really touches me. The person who introduced me to Joy Division was Joe Lally, the bass player from Fugazi. I introduced him to Iggy Pop’s “Raw Power” (ed: credited as “Iggy and the Stooges” -1973) and he introduced to Joy Division’s “Closer” (1980) and that was our trade. Heavy band, a really heavy band. Personally, I always like the darker stuff, the gloomier stuff. It doesn’t have to be ultra-heavy, loud like Sabbath or something, but it can be mentally heavy, too, like Joy Division or Sisters of Mercy or even people like Chelsea Wolfe, a modern example. It doesn’t really have to be super bombastically loud to be heavy. I’m drawn to the more melancholic, sadder stuff, something that’s always in me, that’s why I like that stuff more.
Some people say the same about Johnny Cash’s music, that Johnny Cash was a metal hero.
Johnny Cash had a dark side. Jerry Lee Lewis had a dark side. I have the same birthday as Jerry Lee Lewis (ed: 29 September) and I’m not really an Elvis fan. I don’t really like Elvis that much, but I like Jerry Lee Lewis, ha-ha (laughs). But it’s really all about your taste. Johnny Cash has some amazing songs and he lived an amazing life and I think there was some darkness in his life and it definitely showed thought. One thing I’ll tell you is: You don’t have to be sad or unhappy to write a heavy song.
You’ve said that Saint Vitus were punks at heart. Why the punk rock fans didn’t like Saint Vitus when they opened for Black Flag?
Because those were the days where everything was being defined. You had your skinheads, you had your Nazi skinheads, you had your crust punks and then you had Vitus, who were considered like Spinal Tap. I mean, it was just not the right time. After I joined the band, it was already climbing out of that. Vitus was on SST because Chuck Dukowski (ed: Black Flag -bass) and Greg Ginn (ed: Black Flag’s guitarist/vocalist and owner of SST Records) liked Saint Vitus. They signed Saint Vitus because they liked Saint Vitus. Everybody lived in LA and Chuck and Greg would see Saint Vitus playing live and they thought it would be really cool and interesting to put a band like that on the label, which was -again- pretty punk rock on their part, because it was pretty anti, you know. But the person who told me about Saint Vitus was Ian MacKaye (ed: Fugazi, Minor Threat – vocals, guitar). I used to go to the record store he worked and he said to me: “Man, you’d really like this band Saint Vitus. I think you should check them out, they are on Henry’s (ed: Rollins -Black Flag singer) label” and one thing led to another and then eventually I joined.
But yeah, those were very strange times: I remember for the first time in my career standing up there singing and having somebody coming right to face and say: “Fuck you! You suck! Fuck you!” What do you do then? Do you turn around and run? Or do you stand there and get right back in his face? You only had one choice and that’s what we did. It’s unpleasant, you know, but we stayed around. They reason I always said that Vitus was a punk rock band, was because of our attitude: Dave (ed: Chandler -guitar) he would always jump in the crowd at the end of every night. If Dave broke a string, then he broke a string on his back up guitar, then Mark (ed: Adams -bass) broke a string, so, the show was basically over and I was just diving into the crowd. I grew up on going downtown DC to see The Faith, Void, Rites of Spring, Minor Threat, we (ed: The Obsessed) played a lot of gigs with The Meatmen, we supported the first reunion of The Dead Boys when we had a lead singer (ed: Vance Bockis), because I knew the club guys. We played with Bad Brains at the old 9:30 club right around the time of “The Yellow Tape” (ed: the 1982 cassette-only release of the “Bad Brains” album). So, it’s in my blood, man. That kind of music is in my blood. It’s high energy, that’s what it is. You can call it “punk rock” or you can call it whatever you want to call it, but to me seeing Bad Brains, in those days, was like seeing God.
How much impact did the Black Sabbath concert you watch in 1973 have on you?
It had a major impact on me. It was actually a little bit earlier than that. I recently looked at the date and I was between 10 and 11 ½ when I saw Sabbath and I was completely blown away. I could still tell you what Ozzy was wearing. I mean, that completely and utterly changed my life. Being that young and being that inexperienced, when I sat and watched that concert, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind at all that they were gonna have to stop the show, I thought it for sure: Bill Ward was playing the drums so hard like there was no way that the show would go on, he was gonna break his drums! Geezer (ed: Butler –bass) was playing so frostily like there was no way, he was gonna break a string! In my little mind, I had never seen anything that powerful, ferocious and high energy. Even though, it’s Sabbath music, it was still such intensity and of course that changed my life.
I also appreciate the fact that you are a Frank Marino (Mahogany Rush) fan. Would you like to tell us a few words about his influence on you?
Oh, yeah! When I first saw Frank Marino I didn’t even have a band yet, I was still in high school. I didn’t want to play the guitar anymore, man. I was completely blown away. I didn’t think anybody should play the guitar after that, but I stayed with it. Recently, a fan sent me a link to that song, “He’s Calling” (ed: from “Eye of the Storm” -2000). I mean, I believe in God but I ‘m not really one denomination or the other, but that is a beautiful fuckin’ song. It’s got a Christian angle to it, but that’s ok. It’s all about the spirit, you know. His playing just grooves in such a great way with the vocals, his guitar playing is so fluid and that little cool guitar he uses, man, it’s like some kind a SG Junior. He has put another pickup in or something or he added two more pickups, I don’t know. That’s a good example: Somebody who is so advanced, he is in another place like John McLaughlin or someone like that.
Sofia asks: You ‘ve been in many different bands in your career. Is there any band or moment that is very special to you?
All the bands are really special to me. Every band I’ve been in, I thought it would be the one. For one reason or another sometimes stuff doesn’t work out, but all the bands that I’ve been in, I have great memories, every single one of them. Saint Vitus took me to all over the world, I played to some huge crowds with Saint Vitus. My biggest show ever was in Dynamo in ’94 with The Obsessed to 93.000 people in Holland. On our day it was The Obsessed, Kyuss, Zakk Wylde (ed: his Pride & Glory project) and Danzig headlined. They pulled the plug on Danzig because he acted like a real asshole that day. But those were golden years and I’m so grateful who have been there. And of course, Shrinebuilder, what an amazing band! It didn’t work out because of all the pressures that people put on themselves from money and whatnot, but I thought that was a fuckin’ unbelievable band. I ‘m so happy to have been a part of that. Premonition 13, my best friend, “Sparky” (ed: Jim Karow), what an amazing fuckin’ guitar player, what an amazing songwriter! He lives out in the desert, in his cool place, he plays all night long, he has guns. Out there where he lives, man… It’s about living life and I appreciated every minute of it, really.
Do you consider the recording (as Bullring Brummies) of “The Wizard” with Geezer Butler and Rob Halford from “Nativity In Black: A Tribute to Black Sabbath” as one of the highlights of your career?
I didn’t meet those guys, even though that I played guitar on the track, I didn’t actually personally meet them, but I will say that it was an amazing experience and I think the song is fantastic. I think the new heavy part that Geezer wrote it’s fantastic, the studio guy that got to play harmonica, the studio guitar player. That’s how I learned the song, they had a studio guitar player on and basically, I played his tracks. The reason I was on the record is because of record company cheese, right. I know the label wasn’t happy and blah-blah-blah, so they couldn’t do it, you know. So, they called Henry Rollins and they said: “Henry, do you wanna sing?” and Henry said: “No. Why don’t you call Wino?” But by the time they called me to sing they already got Halford, but now they needed a guitar played because they couldn’t use Tony’s (ed: Iommi) tracks. But all of Sabbath did play on that track but it didn’t make it to the record. I was up in the attic of the studio, they said: “Your guitar cabin is shit. So, let’s go and get another one”. So, I’m up there to get a guitar cabin and my bass player, Guy Pinhas (ed: The Obsessed, Goatsnake, Acid King) was sitting in the control room and he was right there when they brought all the tracks of the original band. The original band did that version for that record that they just couldn’t use it but nobody heard it, except Guy, the little motherfucker (laughs).
I’m a huge Townes Van Zandt fan, too. How did it happen to do “Songs of Townes Van Zandt” (2010) with Scott Kelly and Steve Von Till from Neurosis?
I got turn on to Townes Van Zandt by this guy in Austin (ed: a friend of Wino’s). Around the same time, I started to talk to Kelly and Steve to talk them into it. I will tell you right now: “A Song For” (ed: by Townes by Zandt) is probably the heaviest song ever written. Someday, I’m gonna cover that song on electric. That stuff is so beyond. When you watch “Be Here to Love Me” (2004), when you watch that movie, they are talking to Townes Van Zandt’s friends and peers and everybody says the same thing: He was just avant-garde, he was different than anybody: His songwriting style, his singing style and his playing. Through Townes Van Zandt I became acquainted with Blaze Foley, he was one of Townes Van Zandt’s friends and partners in crime. His stuff is also cool and after I discovered Townes I got into a little bit of Blaze. Again, Townes Van Zandt, man, is just beyond.
Sofia asks: Do you like any newer bands that have the classic doom sound like Pallbearer and Messa?
Pallbearer are ok. I think those bands hit the right mark because people these days like longer songs, maybe a little more complicated songs like Elder or Pallbearer. I do like that stuff. I like Pallbearer and I like Elder. I mean, it’s got to groove a little bit. I don’t care for Messa that much because it doesn’t really groove, but I like Clutch, you know. It’s got to have a little bit of that, something that you can move your feet around to.
Sofia asks: You have played many shows in Greece. Is there any Greek band that stands out?
There are quite a few bands that I enjoy. One of them (ed: Violet Vortex) covered “Hiding Mask” (ed: from The Obsessed’s “Lunar Womb” -1991) some years ago. I am drawing a blank right now. I can think some down the line, but most of the bands that I have played with, I have enjoyed, yeah.
You like different kinds of music from Mahavishnu Orchestra and Charlie Parker to Black Sabbath. Do you have an explanation why nowadays is it considered cool to say “I like Kiss or Rush” and it is considered uncool to say “I like The Doors or Grateful Dead or Fairport Convention”?
That’s not how I look at it like whether it’s cool or somebody says it’s not. I like the Grateful Dead! One of my all-time favorite songs is a Grateful Dead song, the live version of “Wharf Rat” from 1971 (ed: “Grateful Dead” live album). That’s one of my all-time favorite songs. I hate everything they did after ’75, but from Frank Zappa, Grateful Dead, jazz… Well, there are two kinds of music: There is good music and there is bad music (laughs). But I really don’t like pop drivel. I don’t like Supertramp, Toto or this type of bands, no. Even this metal band that everyone loves, Queensryche. They are a little bit mellow. I saw them live, I guess I got invited to the show free, and the guitar player was wearing fuckin’ pink leg warmers and I thought: “Wait a minute, what the fuck?!” I mean, the guys were like a summer band. My religion is: “Boots on stage”. Boots on stage (laughs) !
You are a tough guy.
Em, you know, you ‘ve gotta be.
Do you feel lucky that you are still alive?
Oh yeah, I feel like I’m well. I’ll be 64 in September and I feel like I’m going on my 30s. I embrace life. There was a time in my life when I wanted to die, but I don’t want to die, I don’t have a death machine anymore, you know why? Because I want to make another fuckin’ record and I want to fuckin’ do another tour and I want to go back to Greece. That’s what we live for, that’s what I live for.
Do you think because of the streaming services listening to an album from start to finish is now becoming a kind of lost art?
I asked Jason, our guitar player, he’s younger than me and I said: “Why don’t people like CD’s anymore?” If I get to go to a concert and I like the band, I’m gonna buy the CD because I want to listen to on my way home in my stereo. Dude, you can put the whole record up online and pick which song you wanna buy or listen to it and I thought: “Oh, yeah” (laughs). It didn’t use to be like that. I think technology is good, technology is bad. When it comes to make heavier records technology is good, when it comes to AI, shit like that, technology is bad. I think it will definitely be the end of us, for sure.
Ian MacKaye from Fugazi told me 13 years ago that Facebook is like a gated community, it’s like a prison but for rich people.
It’s CIA, it’s intelligence. CIA is the main people behind Facebook and Instagram. It’s the Meta, that’s intelligence and they are doing that for a reason. They are getting everybody’s face recognition and information of what they listen to and what they like. Come on, we are in dark times right now and our freedoms are being very-very much stepped on. In United States in particularly they are arresting people for no reason, at all. If you object to the pedophile school teacher, those throw the parent in jail. The whole world is upside down.
Facebook banned my interview with Mel Collins, the saxophone player of King Crimson, because they thought it was inappropriate and then when I objected, they said: “Oh, we are sorry. You are right”.
Probably because people spoke up.
Now, they will do the same with this one because you are talking about Facebook. They will ban this interview, too.
It’s common knowledge, it’s CIA is the main people behind Facebook. I know that for Facebook since its first year, I mean, that is common knowledge. I don’t think they are denying it, man. I don’t think they are denying anything except the fact they are unelected swine (laughs),
Did you like the Sunn O)))’s album with Scott Walker, “Soused” (2014)?
I don’t really like Sunn O))) that much. Not really. I mean, Greg Anderson (guitar) was a friend of mine for a long time. Man, I ‘m not gonna talk shit about the guy, but I do not like that band.
You know, especially in Greece many people are in stoner rock not for the music, but for the hype or to smoke some joints etc.
They are hipsters, right. People that don’t actually play instruments, it’s a little bit different for them, so I understand. Somebody who doesn’t play guitar or bass, but they like heavy music, I get it; everybody is gonna find their niche. I am not gonna put anybody down, they are just trying to find their way with music or trying to find something they like. I mean, if you wear your Pentagram t-shirt and you cut your hair weird just to impress the girls, yes, of course, that’s bullshit. But the music has to talk.
Some stoner rock fans in Greece they have listened to one Monster Magnet album and then they talk about psychedelic rock music.
Everybody in industry that knows Wyndorf (ed: vocalist and guitarist of Monster Magnet) and Monster Magnet, knows he never took a drug in his life. All this acid-like (ed: he mimics a druggy behavior) “Aaah”, that was bullshit, but they did one good record. “Spine of God” (1991) is an amazing record. “Spine of God” is a great record, but you know what? The other record, “Superjudge” (1993), if you listen to “Twin Earth”, you ‘ll hear it’s a straight Captain Beyond rip-off; they had a song “Mesmerization Eclipse” (ed: from “Captain Beyond”-1972). If you listen to that Monster Magnet record you are gonna hear they ripped that song off.
It’s not very surprising, anyway.
Yeah, you are right. I will always pay tribute to my influences, but that is crossing the line, you know. That is crossing the line (laugh).
Jimi Hendrix’s music, Santana’s music, George Harrison’s music had also a strong spiritual aspect. Is today’s music spiritual?
Some of it, is. I mean, just last night, I was watching a few different versions of my favorite song, which is “I Don’t Live Today” (ed: from The Jimi Hendrix Experience’s “Are You Experienced?” -1967). The intro that he plays in “I Don’t Live Today”, I had never seen anybody who could explain it, except last night, strangely enough. Last night, I happened to be watching Hendrix on TV, I came across this guy who was translating for the guitar players, he was explaining how Hendrix played “I Don’t Live Today” and I have never seen anybody except Dave Navarro (ed: Jane’s Addiction, Red Hot Chili Peppers -guitar) play the intro to “I Don’t Live Today”. So, now I know how it was done. I can’t do it but Dave Navarro could and so did Hendrix.
A huge “THANK YOU” to Mr. Weinrich for his time. I should also thank Sofia Georgiadou for her valuable help.
Official The Obsessed website: https://www.theobsessedofficial.net/
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